Question Time in Manchester tonight
The BBC’s Question Time programme comes to Manchester tonight, as the Labour conference rolls out of town and I can walk again through the city centre without it resembling some kind of post-apolcalyptic police state populated by machine gun wielding guards.
The most important question of the day is of course “How many goals will Manchester City lose to against Juventus in the Euro Vase group stage tie at Eastlands tonight?” and so I will be at the ground attempting to find an answer, rather than in the QT studio. Bury Lib Dems do have a representative in the audience though, I am informed.
Much of the debate will be, I guess, about the departing Labour conference go-ers, and the conference itself which has been dominated by Ed and David Miliband. If I had more time, I’d put the tale to music because it’s like an up-market version of the musical “Blood Brothers.” Happily for the world, I don’t have that time. What I do have is a view on Ed’s election, as does the Deputy Leader of the Lib Dems Simon Hughes, who I think is actually on the panel for QT tonight.
Mr Hughes responded to Ed Miliband’s first speech as leader, and said:
“One speech can’t wash away his record as a key part of the New Labour government that trampled on our civil liberties and left our economy in ruins.
“Ed Miliband was special advisor to Gordon Brown when he was Chancellor and voted for ID cards and 90 day detention without charge when he was in government.
“Labour can’t claim to have moved on until its policies and votes in Parliament reflect the seriousness of the mistakes Labour made and the problems they left.”
I can’t say I agree with all of that, but I do agree with the thrust of it. Of course people are going Mili-mad about the speech Ed made on Tuesday. Any new leader engenders lots of column inches and rejuvenates a party. But what was clearly lacking on Tuesday was any kind of concrete policies on how to deal with any of the important issues going forward. It wasn’t the time for that. But as a result, now is not the time to have judged him one way or another, or to have judged the Labour party.
Any serious person must surely wait to hear about policies before praising or dismissing Miliband. People like Neil Kinnock who were falling over themselves to scream his praises are silly to do so after just one speech. Similarly, those who dismissed him are equally silly.
Maybe we’ll find out more about new Labour tonight on Question Time. Asking tough questions and hearing answers are more of a litmus test than a set piece speech
Rick
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September 30th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
ID Cards, and the proposed 90-day detention plans, were not “mistakes” – they were things that the LibDems did not agree with. If what you said the other day was meant seriously, then surely the quote you give from Hughes is pure political waffle?
“Left our economy in ruins”? Er, no – that was an economic collapse which was literally of worldwide proportions. To deal with it, the Labour Government spent an incredible amount of money, shoring-up the system. And that left us with a massive financial deficit. But did Labour REALLY leave the Coalition Government to deal the problem – or did both the LibDems and the Tories team up to ensure that they formed a Government, and ousted Labour?
If you remove from the quote you attribute to Simon Hughes those bits that you say you don’t agree with (which bits, by the way?), and then remove those bits that, according to your comments the other day, were merely “finger jabbing and name calling”, and with which you want to distance yourself, what’s left that you agree with “the thrust of”?
Ed Miliband made his first speech to the Labour Conference as Leader. That’s it.
But you are quite right… if that’s all that’s worth quoting from Simon Hughes’ response, then the score at Eastlands is far more important!!
October 1st, 2010 at 12:17 am
Rather an optimistic final paragraph there, as things turned out! Tonight was more about David Starkey than anything else; makes for an entertaining evening out if not for fine political debate. The rest of the panel were themselves, I suppose – Simon Hughes a perfect paragon of sense, Diane Abbott slightly hyper and over-emotional, some random Tory clone being… some random Tory clone! Nice on a personal note to find that Brian Cox is a grumpy old lefty, I like him a lot as an actor and would have been slightly put off if he went along with Starkey all the time. Glad I went, shame I couldn’t think of anything to say that wasn’t already being said by someone or other.
October 1st, 2010 at 7:53 am
I think 90 days and ID cards were mistakes. We disagreed with them, but then so also did the majority at the election.
Labour DID leave the economy in ruins. Whether it was their fault that it was in ruins is debateable, but when they left the economy was in ruins. And no, the coalition didn’t conspire to oust Labour. The public voted the Tories as the largest party, and the Lib Dems tried to form a government with that largest party, as they said they would. Labour were free to negotiate with them, but didn’t, and the maths didn’t stack up to allow a realistic Lib / Lab coalition.
October 1st, 2010 at 12:38 pm
He’s right that 90-day detention was not a “mistake”. It was a travesty verging on totalitarianism, a disgraceful attempt by the Labour government to gain unreasonable control over its citizens.
October 1st, 2010 at 4:40 pm
Oh c’mon Richard, this is nonsense, and you know it.
Yes, Labour LOST the last Election, but they did what they had to do, in order to save the UK economy from total collapse. It cost the nation an absolute fortune, but the Government were charged with the responsibility of dealing with it, even though it actually had nothing whatsoever to do with their policies. Are you seriously saying that a LibDem or Tory Government, faced with the same situation, would have done something else, which would not have cost so much? The UK, unlike the rest of Europe, depends so much on the Banking Sector, that it simply could not be left out on the line to dry. And at the time, all Parties recognised the problem, and broadly supported the measures taken, because there were (and still are) no other realistic options.
It’s easy to say that Labour should have done something better. But what? Do you really believe that any Government in the UK would ever have the amount that it cost Labour to stabilise the economy simply lying around, waiting for a rainy day?
You can’t extrapolate from the election result that Labour lost because of the 90-day issue, or the ID Card issue (or indeed any other specific policy). If you use such an illogical measure to explain the result, it must also be true to say that the “majority” liked the LibDems even less than the Tories or Labour, and didn’t want them anywhere near the levers of power.
You are wrong to say that Labour did not negotiate with the LibDems about a coalition – they did. Those negotiations however, were not successful. I’ve no idea why they weren’t successful, but rumour has it that Labour didn’t trust the LibDems. Trust is important in Politics, and I guess that Labour were put off by the sight of Nick Clegg courting the Tories, in a bid for power. After all, Nick Clegg did finally go into a coalition with them – the one thing he’d previously promised your very own Liberal Democrat Conference that he would NEVER do!
Z… “travesty verging on totalitarianism”? I do like reasoned argument!
October 1st, 2010 at 9:25 pm
There’s also a significant train of thought that the Labour party weren’t serious about a Lib-Lab coalition, not even wanting to stop child migrant detention, another barbaric and immoral Labour legacy. I suppose you can’t blame them for rushing to the opposition benches having lost the election, but it would be nice if they admitted as much.
And yes, a government having the power to lock its citizens up for three months without having to tell them why IS a travesty. The state should be the slave of the people, not the other way around.