In defence of pension pots
I noticed tonight that a Facebook group has been launched which campaigns to “Shred John Prescott’s Pension” so as not to “reward him for failure,” in much the same way as he’s campaigning against Sir Fred Goodwin’s pension.
There’s nothing more certain to attract the most feverish bandwagon-jumpers these days than a Facebook group, but this one I think misses the point and misdirects the argument in an unfortunate way.
Putting Mr Prescott aside (for the moment), there are obvious flaws in Sir Fred’s pension payments, and people are right to be annoyed. He seems to have had his annual pension boosted purely as a result of his decision to effectively take the last lifeboat of a sinking ship. Any payments accrued because of this shouldn’t have happened, and there’s an argument to be made to take them away. If there’s a legal avenue to do so, we should go down it.
But some of the punishments suggested for Sir Fred, in my opinion, go too far. They verge on rich-bashing for the sake of it whilst simultaneously missing the real injustice.
For one thing, I am uncomfortable with the idea of passing retrospective laws to take back the man’s pension. Fair enough he has acquired a proportion of it when the company he was running was disappearing down the tubes. But unless his conduct or the conduct of the pension trustees was illegal, in my view we’re stuck with this, even though it’s unpalatable. I cannot understand how liberals can support retrospective legislation such as that suggested. And I cannot understand how a government can hope to foster a respect for the rule of law when it changes that law retrospectively to punish someone disliked by the press. It smacks of legislation framed out of revenge, not reason.
We should tighten the loopholes for the future, sure. But making someone punishable in law for acts which were legal when committed should only happen in the gravest of circumstances (like after a war), if at all. And I don’t think this fits the bill.
A better legacy following this debacle is to make damn sure that this type of irresponsible banking can never happen again.
Sir Fred is not a man who walked in off the street to head up RBS. He worked at the top of banks generating billions for the country for years, and he accrued a lot of money doing it, rightly in my view. His organisation employed tens of thousands directly, and financed companies employing millions more. I know he screwed up something chronic, and we’re all paying for it now (including him, as a taxpayer), but I have a mortgage because banks leant me money, and I have a car for the same reason. And so do millions of others. And yes, the rules were too lax, and he made some awful decisions. But he alone wasn’t to blame. A problem this complex doesn’t have a solution that can fit as a banner headline on page 1 of the Daily Mail.
Sir Fred is a multi-millionaire, and this alone seems enough to outrage large sections of the community. I have heard many people say “It’s outrageous that a man can earn £650,000 per year,” and then just stop there. In my view, it’s not outrageous at all. I don’t care that the man’s loaded. Fair play to him and to everyone else who’s had the brains, gumption and luck to get to live the high life. I hope it happens to me and to all of you. And I hope you live in a retirement so comfortable that you never worry about a thing.
Yes, he earns a fortune, but he pays more in tax than most of the people on my street put together, but if his house is burning down the fire brigade don’t come ten times quicker to help him. I know that’s not a fashionable view to take, but there we are, that’s what I think.
The real outrage is that there are still millions of people in this country who will never earn £650,000 a year for a myriad reasons we should be directing our anger at instead of this one man. Millions of kids so deprived of love, support, not to mention aspiration, that they will never in a million years get the chance to sit in the boardroom of a bank except to clean it. Where’s the outrage at this on the front of the papers or on Facebook?
Where’s the outrage that OAPs reliant on the state pension have seen fixed costs sky-rocket in the last 12 years as Council Tax has doubled and fuel bills have gone up even further?
It’s all disappeared in a tirade of abuse aimed at this one man and his cronies. I don’t think it’s their fault, nor will taking Sir Fred Goodwin’s pension off him solve it. It’s odd that those at the forefront of the anti-Goodwin campaign are perhaps responsible more than any others for these wider, sadder injustices. Recessions will pass, but pensioners will die cold, and the kids born on the local Council estate will die younger and poorer than the kids born on my street.
Harriet Harman, Gordon Brown, Hazel Blears et al have had as many years and more in a position to influence things than Sir Fred. They should think a bit more widely about how to frame their criticisms. We could reduce Sir Fred’s pension to nothing tomorrow, and the money we’d save the taxpayer is nothing compared to the money I think we waste on schemes hatched by the Labour government. In this instance, their anti-Goodwin populism is hypocritical because it misdirects its anger.
But even though he’s been at the wheel of a car hurtling Britain towards meltdown, we still shouldn’t shred John Prescott’s pension, or Blears’ pension or Harman’s, like some want. Firstly, he had a job like everyone else does, and though we might think he did it badly, no court has said he’s done anything criminal and so he shouldn’t have his pension touched. He’s accrued it legally, over many years, and it’s his.
It seems like because he’s an MP, with a pension put funded by me and you, this should make it all the more vulnerable. But it shouldn’t. A pension pot is sacred money put aside for when someone can’t earn anything to support themselves, and although some people get more of it than others, as I said before we should be raising the bottom ones up not pushing the top ones down. Altering the principle on a whim sets a dangerous precedent at the behest of tabloid headlines. And how can anyone be confident in their pension if this kind of thing not only happens but is actively sanctioned by the government?
Yes, I know that some pension funds have disappeared completely, and others have been changed to the detriment of the beneficiaries. This needs to be stopped too. But the way to do it is through positive laws and tighter regulations so that people who screw up and impoverish thousands are punished in the courts and not just in their wallets on a whim by whichever newspaper screams loudest.
Again, this Prescott group on Facebook seems to be an attack on the rich and successful for the sake of it. I think we can do better with our arguments. We might not like Mr Prescott’s politics, and we might have an unfavourable view of him as a man because we’ve read stuff in the papers. But his job is subject to the most clear cut form of performance related pay of any job – UK elections. And he’s managed to win ten of them and stay an MP for nearly 40 years. Possibly because he’s campaigned for, and achieved, significant steps against poverty like the minimum wage. Just the type of thing which would actually help people far more than getting rid of rich people’s pensions.
Anyone with the brains to become Deputy Prime Minister and represent hundreds of thousands of people for decades as an MP could probably have earned significantly more by not serving the public as an MP and by being an accountant or a corporate lawyer (or a banker) instead. If we want the best to lead us in public service, we shouldn’t ask them to pay back money when the decisions they make with good intentions go wrong. We should vote them out and vote in people who’ll make it better and stop it happening again. How can we get good people to stand for anything if their every act risks personal financial ruin? That’s what the Facebookers seem to want.
The only good thing about the Facebook group is that it might give a subtle hint to Mr Prescott and others that jumping on bandwagons is only wise if you have nothing to be ashamed of yourself.
The Facebook group calls for the “shredding” of Mr Prescott’s pension because of his “unquestioning loyalty” to the government. Well, casting aside the convention of collective cabinet responsibility which actually makes effective government possible in the first place, this is the same government which has been elected the last three times out, including once after the Iraq war started. It might be annoying to some (including me) that that’s happened, but it’s happened all the same. The electoral system might be flawed in some people’s view, but it has spoken loud and clear, and even under a system of PR Labour would’ve been the largest party for years now, and Prescott would have been at the heart of it. If he’s been guilty of such terrible crimes, his bosses haven’t sacked him by voting for someone else.
Yes, he’s screwed up and his screw ups have affected lots of people. But he hasn’t done it alone, and neither has Sir Fred. He isn’t evil, and neither is Sir Fred. And neither of them should have their pension pots shredded.
Instead of campaigning to shred people’s pensions, we should be campaigning to make every pensioner in this country comfortable enough to live a happy retirement. We should use our votes wisely, do our utmost to get the best people into local and central government, and make sure of two things. First, that this type of thing is never allowed to happen again. And second, that the real injustices in every community in the country are properly addressed.
Rick
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Hi Rick - I think you may have missed the deliberate irony in setting up the Shred John Prescott’s Pension campaign (for it was I wot done it). The main target is Mr P’s hypocrisy, not his money. More at Lib Dem Voice here: http://tinyurl.com/c9sdjh
cheers, stephen
I did see that the group was set up with irony. But whilst you may have been the first person to make the suggestion ironically, there are plenty of people who’d miss the irony and probably agree with you!
You aren’t the first person to say that leading ministers should pay back money / be sent to jail etc for doing their job!
My apologies in advance if this becomes slightly long-winded!!!
There is undoubtedly an element of envy which is powering the outcry against Sir Fred Goodwin, and it would be foolish to suggest that this is not the case. But there is a greater, and far more serious issue to be addressed - one which all politicians, from local Councillors to Prime Ministers, should take time out to consider. And in this respect, whether we like it or not, Sir Fred Goodwin is a prime example of what is wrong with our society.
You make the point Richard, that Sir Fred is a multi-millionaire. I don’t know if that is true - but it is certainly a fair assumption. As you also point out, he has spent years in the Banking Industry, and for a great deal of that time, he earned big bucks for the job he did. It is fair to assume therefore, that with his knowledge of finance, and with his large remuneration, he perhaps managed to put a few bob away in a jar, for his retirement.
If he didn’t do that - what a silly-billy, as Chancellor Denis Healey famously never said.
But if he did, good for him. I totally agree with your view that his pension should not be taken from him. But then, I am not aware of anybody who is seriously suggesting that it should be. Such an idea is a red-herring.
The questions that needs to be addressed are ones of integrity and morality.
Sir Fred Goodwin was running an independent financial institution. If he allows that institution to virtually collapse (which it did), that independent financial institution then has to be baled out by the taxpayer (which it has), and large numbers of staff are then made redundant (which they are), Sir Fred Goodwin should accept his fair share of the consequences.
The pension that most people are angry about is the one negotiated by him with RBS, at a time when RBS was ostensibly doing very well. It would seem that Sir Fred’s RBS remuneration, and Sir Fred’s RBS pension, were not based on results. It seems that, as the people of the UK put their money into the Bank to prop it up, and the front-line workers get made redundant, with little to look forward to other than £60-odd a week in Benefits, and the hope that their homes won’t be repossessed, Sir Fred says “Well, thanks a lot guys, it’s been fun. I’ll just pocket my £12,000 a week for life, and be off.”
That was £12,000 a WEEK!! Given what is happening to the staff who were working for him, that is an appalling lack of integrity.
560 of those staff could be given an extra £1,000, to help them out. Double that amount, if Sir Fred donates two years of that pension. From now until he reaches retirement age (65), he could help out over 8,000 of those unemployed people, simply by donating this hideous RBS pension plan to them. But in response to requests, Sir Fred has refused to hand back a single penny of it. That is a total lack of morality.
OK, what I’m saying is somewhat simplistic - I know that. But the point is this… if politicians continually tell us that they share a common aspiration to raise the earnings of everyone in the UK (still one of the richest nations on Earth), to a level where people are at least able to save a couple of pounds a week, instead of having to use Credit Cards simply to make ends meet, whilst at the same time do nothing about the fact that employers are successfully circumnavigating the Law, and using customer tips to top up the Minimum Wage, is it any wonder that the vast majority of the working population (to say nothing of those who are now retired), are becoming increasingly restless?
And meanwhile, the Fred Goodwins of this country are busily scoffing at the trough, and not giving two hoots for the society which gave them the opportunity to do so.
I have no problem with anybody receiving high incomes for the work they do. But those at the top must accept the responsibilities of their positions, and accept the consequences of failure. Sir Fred Goodwin appears to have had a free ride. The Government should take him to Court, on a charge of Gross Negligence, and he should lose that Pension if found guilty.
Failure to address this matter would be nothing short of moral bankruptcy.