New Labour Rose, New Depths Plunged
Just a brief posting about the new St Mary’s Rose, the Labour leaflet, which I read whilst out leafleting in the ward today (this is about the third one they’ve done - there must be an election coming up!).
Having turned their vitriol-fuelled fire up to “furnace” with the last issue, this time they plunge new depths with an outright and massive lie, putting on paper for the first time what they’ve almost said in the past - that Lib Dems in Bury shouldn’t complain to the Council when things go wrong because the Lib Dems and the Tories “are the Council.”
That’s an absolute lie. The people who wrote it know it’s a lie. And if they had any decency they would publicly retract it and let the people of this ward decide the coming election on facts, not falsehoods. They are spreading lies for votes. That’s not what any of us should be doing. It brings the reputation of all of us down.
If this is what the St Mary’s Labour candidate was taught (and was teaching) at Labour campaign school, then there is a sickness at the heart of his party of which he should be utterly ashamed.
Just for the record, once again, the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives are not in any coalition, alliance, or anything else. The Conservatives control Bury Council. Lib Dems and Labour have one member of the Executive each, the Conservatives have all the rest. There’s no coalition, no joint policy making, no joint anything. Labour’s leaflet is lying. It’s lying because they want power in Bury, and they are so obsessed with holding on to their last seat in Prestwich that they are stooping to incredibly low depths to do it.
This isn’t political spin. It’s not their take on things as opposed to our take on things. It’s an actual lie. It’s like saying the sky is yellow or the Moon is made of cheese. It’s just not true. Don’t believe it.
I could take a bit of story-fiddling. I could live with them spinning things to suit them. It’s how politics works (although I wish it wasn’t). We all write leaflets promoting ourselves and our achievements, and we all go over the top sometimes. But what St Mary’s Labour are doing is just telling lies in the hope that it wins them votes. It isn’t right.
As it goes, I think the rest of their leaflet is twaddle as well, but that’s pretty much their side of a story against our’s. There are grains of fact in what they say, even if it is skewed virtually beyond recognition and the facts are consumed in rubbish. I can live with that. Let the people decide, fine. I’ll write a better one for us.
But the coalition thing is a downright lie. So don’t be fooled. I would like them to produce a single piece of evidence to back up their claim, and I will gladly speak to anyone who rings me up to speak to me about it, if you aren’t clear. Including St Mary’s Labour, who I know read this blog, and who I take no delight in telling, once again, that they should be ashamed of their continuing actions.
Rick
6 Comments
have your say
I remember something about places on the transport authority which were gifted from the ruling tories to the lib dems just at the same time as the lib dems decided not to vote against the tories taking control of the council with an overall majority. That looks like a deal to me!
Hi Dave,
Are you the same Dave Jones who leads Oldham Council…?
Please don’t get confused between the Passenger Transport Authority issue and talk of a “coalition” or “alliance.” That’s just the trick that Labour want you to fall for. There is absolutely no alliance, or coalition, nor was there a deal. As I explain below, the PTA places came after a logical and fair decision was made, and were in no way an iducement to make that decision.
The Lib Dems in Bury have consistently voted independently of influence from all other parties this year, standing up for Prestwich and Bury in the process. Sometimes Labour vote with us, sometimes the Tories, sometimes both and sometimes neither.
There is simply no truth to the story that there is a coalition or alliance. We are an absolutely independent group, and I once again challenge anyone to provide any evidence to the contrary. Like Labour we are in opposition to a Tory-run Bury Council, and we are doing it well, as proven when we won the Opposition Group of the Year award at the recent Lib Dem spring conference.
The truth behind the PTA issue is this (and it is fairly lengthy, so apologies)
1) The Conservatives won more seats than Labour in the elections in May, but not enough to win an overall majority. This was the first time the Conservatives had a majority of any kind in Bury for 21 years.
2) Labour were the second biggest party, and the Lib Dems the third.
3) The Lib Dems won two new seats in May, defeating Labour incumbents in both. So our supporters clearly wanted Labour out.
4) The people of Bury also wanted Labour out, as proven by the Conservatives taking more seats in the chamber.
5) At Annual Council (where the vote is taken on who controls the Council), the Labour Group and the Conservative Group obviously both voted for themselves, as is to be expected. The Lib Dems could choose one of three options:
a) Vote with the Labour Group for a Labour controlled Council
b) Vote with the Conservatives for a Conservative controlled Council
c) Abstain, and allow the Group with the most democratically elected Councillors to take control (in this case, the Conservatives).
Bearing in mind that the people in the wards which we’d just won, AND the people of Bury as a whole had just voted Labour out, AND bearing in mind that we have ideological differences with Labour, it meant that option a) was a no-no. Bearing in mind that we also have ideological differences with the Conservatives, and wish to remain independent of all parties, option b) was a no-no too. So that left option c). So we abstained.
6) It is true that we took two places on the Passenger Transport Authority. These are in the gift of the ruling group to distribute, and they were made available to us by the Conservatives, and we took them. However, this did not influence the decision at all. The places on the PTA make very little difference to the balance of the PTA, and give no political advantage at all in Bury. They are small-fry compared to the importance of the decision, hence the Tories giving them away so easily.
So we had a choice between betraying the people of Bury and voting Labour in, thus losing our independence, or abstaining and letting democracy take its course, whilst staying independent. The PTA places are a side-issue. We were being offered them for a decision which we were going to make anyway, so we’d have been mad not to take them, especially during a year when congestion charging was being debated.
We have two places on the PTA. That’s not in dispute. What is disputed is that this was some kind of special “gift” from the Conservatives in return for our abstention. It really was not. The decision had been made. And we chose independence and democracy over slavish loyalty to a Labour administration which had been comprehensively booted out of Prestwich and Bury. Labour try to link the PTA places with some kind of conspiracy against them. There really is no such thing. The reason they don’t run Bury any more is because the Conservatives have more seats than them, and we used our casting vote to back the voters up. SImple as that.
Throughout the proces, both before, during and after, we have remained independent. We are not in any kind of alliance, or coalition, or anything else. In fact, doing anything differently would have meant us losing our independence and backing a Labour group which local people had voted out. Believe me when I say, Bury Lib Dems value our independence enormously.
Labour continue to lie about this, which is easy because, as you’ve seen, it’s quite complicated. But please don’t be fooled by them.
Also, what Labour don’t mention in their leaflets is that after the 2006 elections, the Lib Dems ALSO abstained, and let the largest party take control. Only then it was LABOUR who benefitted! Labour never said that we were in coalition with THEM last year! This is because it suited them to tell the truth last year, and it suits them to lie this year. Lib Dems have consistently chosen to remain ndependent and back up the democratic will of Bury. It’s what we stand for, and it shouldn’t be mixed up with pettiness from a bitter Labour party.
Rick
Thanks for your reply - and no i’m not from oldham - i could take that as an insult.
You do state that “It is true that we took two places on the Passenger Transport Authority. These are in the gift of the ruling group to distribute, and they were made available to us by the Conservatives, and we took them.”
so it is fairly reasonable to question why they would give them to you? Your are still the smallest group on the council so have no real democratic claim to them. If you wanted to avoid this accusation why not refuse the places? You make a good case but i’m sure you’ll see that this “gift” does raise an issue.
in terms of abstaining - i do think sometimes you need to take a view, i did read recently about the lib dems abstaining in parliament on a key Euro vote and you seem to do it here as well. I think you shoudl take a view on these things. As a former Labour (real labour) voter i would have expected you to back labour as you always seem to appear more left than right wing. Anyway am not taking the chance again next year and am going to vote Labour here in prestwich as it seems that only two parties can run the council and the libs just abstain.
PS - i like the blog!
Hi,
Thanks for the comment about the blog.
I used to work in Oldham – I think it’s a great town and has an unreasonably bad press. Your namesake is the Labour Council Leader, and a fellow member of the GMPTA.
Anyway… Back to Bury.
I stand by what I said about the PTA places. Of course it’s become a political problem for us, but we have used our influence over congestion charging, and have consistently been the only party with a firm opposition in Bury. We’d have been foolish to reject them and the opportunity that went with them. And we are absolutely not in an alliance or a coalition with the Tories as a result of taking them.
Like I said, at Annual Council we had to make a choice between backing Labour, the Tories or neither party. Our abstention was a choice. We weren’t saying “Lib Dems don’t care,” but instead were saying “Lib Dems respect the democratic view of Bury, and we won’t stand in the way of the Conservatives taking control by actively siding with a recently-defeated Labour party.” Remember, our only alternative was to actively side with Labour, who had just been beaten not just in Bury, but specifically in the two seats we’d just won. Our voters had conclusively rejected Labour, so we couldn’t very well back them, could we?
Similarly, we weren’t going to actively back the Tories either, because we are an independent party. So we backed neither and let democracy take its course.
We are a strong and independent voice in the Town Hall. Another party may control the Executive, but if you look at our record, I think you’ll be amazed at how much influence we have. We are the party who proposed the motion opposing congestion charging, which became Council policy. We are the party that proposed motions calling on the Council to support Post Offices, cutting concessionary travel, and increasing funding for street cleaning and children’s services. All of these became Council policy too. Compare that to Labour’s record this year. They have been unceasingly negative and, I say this with all due respect, have done very little in the way of policy generation for anyone.
In Prestwich, with 8 of the 9 Councillors, we are very powerful. I don’t know which ward you live in, but in all three you must remember that regardless of the results on May 1st, the Lib Dems will still control the Local Area Partnership. The Tories can’t win round here (haven’t won a seat in Prestwich for 15 years + and were a distant third in St Mary’s and Holyrood), and Labour have let Prestwich down badly over Prestwich Arts College, the years of neglect of the Village etc. It would take some incredibly unlikely results Bury-wide for Labour to take control of the Council again in May. So ask yourself, do you want to vote for a strong, positive opposition force in the Lib Dems, who can continue to build progress and Pride in Prestwich? Or do you want to vote for a Labour party stung from defeat and waging an incredibly negative campaign? If you want to vote Labour, that’s fine. But I think you’re wrong to use the reasons you cite in your message.
To say the Lib Dems just abstain is wrong. We are very clear on the Europe issue. The reason that there was an abstention last week was because the real issue about Britain’s membership of the EU at all remains unanswered. We were clear on what we wanted – a referendum on membership of the EU. A MORI poll showed that people backed us on this by 2:1. Unfortunately the government didn’t, so we abstained on the other question. Again, the abstention wasn’t us saying “we don’t care,” but was an active decision that neither of the two options on offer were right.
If I wanted to get the train into town, and was offered a choice between the 135 bus and the 93 bus, I’d abstain because I wanted to take the train! That’s basically what happened on the Europe thing.
We have been clear on many things. Lib Dems nationally oppose ID cards, opposed the invasion of Iraq, oppose nuclear power stations and the continuing unfairness of the Council Tax. Locally we are rigidly opposed to congestion charging and the currently proposed elected Mayor for Bury. We are for Green taxation, road pricing as a replacement for fuel and car tax, for community solutions to crime and justice problems, for a local income tax, for greater local accountability and power for Councils etc etc etc.
To say we abstain all the time is wrong. To suggest that we don’t care is absolutely incorrect.
Rick
again - thanks for the email - i’m not an oldham man myself!
Basically i’m one of those anti tory persons - probably vote Labour in the General but dont like the idea of a Tory Council.
In terms of your bus example - i would say that choosing no bus would be pointless if there so no train and would leave you standing still. In terms of the green issues - i like what you say nationally but as someone who does without a car i do think your local support for the motor lobby and car users is at odds with your national policy, a little bit we support green taxes just as long as they dont apply round here.
Hello again,
Not liking the Tories is fine, just like it’s fine not to like us. On election day you have four choices. A vote for either of the three parties, or not voting. You won’t vote Tory, and I suspect you won’t abstain, so there’s a choice between us and Labour.
I could write down here every positive thing we’ve done for Prestwich ,but I do that on the main blog, and you’ll hear from both sides in the campaign through leaflets I’m sure! So I will suggest two reasons why you should vote for us that are separate from the main reason (which is that I think we do good things locally).
First, Labour’s campaign is incredibly negative, and based on a lie that Lib Dems and Tories are running the Council together. I want a campaign based on issues, pride in Prestwich, and positivity. Not an attempt to lie about the opposition to win votes.
Second, a vote for Labour will change nothing in Prestwich or Bury. Even if Labour win all three seats in Prestwich (which would be absolutely remarkable, especially in Holyrood), we would still outnumber them 6-3 on Prestwich LAP. Even if Labour win every marginal and held seat they have across Bury, the chances are that the Tories would still be the largest party.
If you don’t like the Tories, vote for a strong local party who have taken the fight to the Town Hall. That party is us. And I’d be glad to convince you properly over the phone if you give me a call. Labour failed Prestwich with school closure plans, the Village falling into disrepair etc. They continue to fail Prestwich from Westminster with Post Office closures. We were the only party to oppose the school closure, are the only party locally fighting against Post Office closure, and are turning around things on the Village. Yeah, the Tories run Bury, but we are a strong opposition for Prestwich, and Labour aren’t.
The bus metaphor was slightly confusing. Sorry! Lib Dems didn’t choose to stand still. We attempted to get MPs to vote on what we wanted, but when it became clear that this wasn’t going to happen, we realised that the government would win regardless of our vote, and so opted not to vote as a way of indicating our displeasure.
Essentially, using the bus metaphor again (and stretching it beyond good reason, I suspect!) – it is like my whole family wanting to go to town, and me wanting to take the train, but the others only offering a vote between the 93 and the 135 bus. I’d abstain from the vote because I think the train idea is better, but the bus vote would still happen, and we’d all end up on the bus to town. Choosing no bus wouldn’t have been pointless, because when the bus broke down and the train rolled past, we’d have been proved right.
In terms of green taxes, thanks for the support of our national plans. The stance we have on Manchester Congestion Charging is less to do with environmental benefits, and more to do with simple fairness. Nobody disputes the environmental benefits of congestion charging. It will reduce congestion. But at what price? Lib Dems say that a Green Tax Switch should be about different taxes, not more taxes. Our national road price scheme does away with the current system of road tax and fuel duties, and imposes new taxes instead which will be spent on world class public transport. It is also flexible so that people in rural communities with less public transport access will pay less. This will give people more choice.
The proposed Manchester Congestion Charger is an additional tax. That’s crucial. It is a blanket fee levied regardless of vehicle, income, distance travelled or reason for travel. If you drive any car past a certain point (which is proposed to be right in the middle of Holyrood ward, by the way), then you pay a flat rate. We think that’ not fair. And it’s especially not fair because the fee is being used to pay back a loan to the government for public transport investment which we feel that they should be funding anyway. But they prefer to spend billions on Iraq, billions more on ID cards, and billions more on nuclear power stations.
Our opposition isn’t populism. In my view it’s rational and based on fairness.
Rick